You took everything I wrote out of context, TiC. As I said before, DJUSA made promises that the site would be fixed rapidly if his team were allowed to work on it -in the beginning- then when he updated in mid-September he said it was close to being fixed (with the secondary statement that they are busy and doing it on spare time), and the most recent update post (late October), over a month later, wasn't even made to Calguns .NET or .ORG. Nothing was said in the early going before Kes gave admin access to DJUSA that it would be done on the side and/or put on the back burner. I realize that it was 'donated' time, and that real jobs, lives, etc will take preference but he seemed to be saying that it could still be repaired rapidly given that he had several people at his disposal to work on solving the issues, and in September (about 2 weeks after the initial restart/problems) he said a resolution to the problems would be quickly forthcoming. I have not seen it resolved or quickly done, have you? It's 1.5 months later and it's still down for long periods of time, with no end of it in sight, AFAIK.
Would you please unblock me from your direct messaging on this forum, TiC? I tried sending you a message a while back and it said I was being blocked from sending to you.
I don't do 'private messaging' with anyone but a moderator and that hasn't happened in years.
Please link to where he said it would be 'immediate' as I showed where the primary thread, from mid-September, didn't say that. (I can't access .net at the moment, so I can't go take another look.) Yes. I can see a lot of confidence and hope. But, I don't see where it was clearly indicated and, knowing what they've likely run into (which involves more than simply the programming and hardware installation), I can see where that confidence was tempered and that hope was tarnished a bit.
Nothing was going to happen 'overnight' and 1.5 months isn't all that long when you consider it's a part-time gig for them, that he has to get approval from Kestryll, Kestryll then has to provide the requested resources, the system has to be 'rewritten,' the hardware installed/tested, the new software has to be properly 'aligned' with the old databases, etc.
As I said, there are reasons I set the 2 - 4 month time frame when I first mentioned it after the 'update.' We have seen -
some - improvements. I grant it hasn't been as all encompassing as we'd like vis a vis a 'fix.' However, my patience is not indefinite in terms of attempting to continue making this an 'everyday' pursuit. I've indicated a lack of consistency and that's my metric for adjudging 'improvement.'
I think too many have 'read into' what was said and sprinkled it with what they
hoped rather than understanding how things actually work. There again, I could be guilty of some of that too in 'allowing' for more time. But, a good deal of that must be set against 'individual perspective' rather than abstract, theoretical musings predetermined by those individual perspectives.
I remember, decades ago, when I took programming courses. Students would be highly confident that they had a 'finished project,' only to discover it didn't work and, often, simply didn't even run. When they went to troubleshoot their programs, they'd spend hours to days looking for how to correct it. That was with 'simple' programs under 10 pages long in BASIC. I never had the problem in that I understood it was simply intended to be adding on to what we'd already done rather than reinventing the wheel with each project; e.g., each project was unique, but the only thing 'new' was whatever we were covering that week.
Now... Complicate all that with 20+ years and millions of topics/posts, outdated software being made compatible with newer versions several iterations removed from what we'd been running on, promises Kestryll has made over the years (which, apparently and thankfully, he seems intent on keeping), a desire to preserve as much as possible in the sense of making it available, a 'specialist' and his team who haven't been in on the 'sausage making' before, limits in terms of resource availability (including time, money, servers, experience with self-hosting, etc.) and I suspect that 1.5 months isn't all that long. Then again, as I've indicated, my computer 'expertise' is 35 years out-of-date. It's just that I've known some programmers in recent years and they've indicated a difficulty in 'keeping up' with the myriad technical changes from one version of a program/programming language to the next, even when it was their job to do so. Imagine dealing with 'outdated' software and several iterations in between what was being used and what's available in today's version.
Even those who should know don't always see what's involved prior to being allowed in. There's a reason I keep referring to 'the room where the sausage is made.' What, even to experts, appears to be a 'simple' matter often turns into a quagmire and it's not always just about the programming. It's not necessarily that anyone is 'at fault' or deliberately causing delays; but, there's a reason for the phrase "the best laid plans..."
I've alluded to the idea before, but my feeling is that this is one of those times in an organization's existence where people are 'tested' and a certain 'winnowing' takes place. It may or may not have a certain amount of intent behind it. I have no way of knowing. However, there has been a bit of an underlying 'tittering' which has been going on for awhile which others might be more attuned to than I have been. As a result, a certain 'mindset' is likely in the context of getting in and getting it done.
I tend to give Kestryll the benefit of the doubt given that the membership was 'advised,' on a number of occasions, that trouble was coming with any type of update. My take is that he (and others) knew there'd be problems. I just don't believe they fully understood the size and complexity of what was involved. Complicating that is the 'input' being provided by people who, frankly, have no way of
knowing as they don't have and have never been allowed access to where the sausage is made, but have their own 'agenda.' (Trust me. There are numerous agendas involved, from a variety of individuals and groups. Even the most cursory of looks and a modicum of awareness demonstrates that.)
It's just that I see a bunch of members flocking to the other site, but I don't see the majority of them attempting to make it a new and vibrant place - yet. In fact, I've seen some attempts made, by some pretty big and recognizable names, and found them either not taken up, rebuffed, or flat out ignored. The sense I get is that many of the more active ones have long been disenchanted with Kestryll and/or .net in general; being desirous of something... different. I've seen many others simply looking for a 'working' site to accomplish what they wish; whether that is to 'sell' or kibbitz or just fill time. Even at that, some of those efforts have been stymied by the timbre of what the management of that site appears to desire. (It's not the obscene or the troublemakers or the malcontents which I'm referring to. I'm talking about those who want a new and improved version of .net and aren't finding that to be completely consistent with who/what the management over there appears to be 'comfortable' with.) Then there are those who have their own interests and those interests aren't always what they attempt to present them as.
Wrap all of that around presumably honest intentions of keeping the maximum number 'happy' with as much as possible and you have the makings of a volatile brew. Frustrations and discontents aren't just likely. They're inevitable. But, that's the true metric when it comes to a 'successful transition;' e.g., management of the volatility. That management doesn't involve meeting everyone's expectations, including those of management. Such is an impossibility.
Would updates be nice? Yes. Then again, as I've said, it's not much of an update to post that there's nothing new, yet. So why do it? Someone or a group will always be upset, impatient, etc. and that type of 'feedback' can wear away at resolve; particularly when the project is 'ancillary' to everyday priorities of family and work, along with what goes into them.
I said it early on. If you think we're frustrated and impatient, imagine Kestryll's mindset. Even more to the point, imagine his continued enthusiasm to 'fix' it vs. just chucking it and letting someone else 'take over.' Then again, as I just indicated, what many of us 'value' about .net isn't necessarily consistent with what would be had should someone else 'take over.' That's what keeps my own impatience in check.