Author Topic: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...  (Read 1407 times)

Offline TrappedinCalifornia

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What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« on: November 21, 2024, 03:36:25 AM »
For those who don't already know, here's a concise post from Librarian on the 'other site' regarding what happened...

Quote from: Librarian
Quote from: IncognitoArms
I was on that forum for years! What exactly happened to it? Can barely log on there now

Really don't know?

Summary: At the end of 2022, the hosting service for Calguns.net decided to get out of the business. The software was moved to another host about December 2022, but it was running incompatible software that vbulletin uses. So for about a year, the forum would run, but had a collection of weird behaviors.

In 2024, at the end of April, the forum was migrated to vbulletin 6, on the cloud service hosted by VB. There were Conversion Issues, one of which was the loss of iTrader, which was an add-on for the old VB 3.x.

Apparently the costs for the data the forum used were high for the cloud service, and performance was sometimes odd, so the forum was moved to another hosting service (https://www.inmotionhosting.com/) at the end of August 2024. (Just three months of this pain? Seems like forever.)

And, the problems with that are what this thread is about.

He's got 'badges' which indicate he's a supporter and contributor to that site; but, he's been remaining fairly even keeled.

No.  I won't link to the thread it's from as there are a goodly number of accusations being thrown around regarding Kestryll in addition to the usual "he should sell it" as well as 'instructions' on how to discontinue your financial support of .net.  Let's just say that if our continuing loyalty to Kestryll is misplaced, so be it, we'll find out soon enough.  If it's not, well... Let's agree that some of these people should not be all that 'welcome' back at .net so far as I'm concerned.

Offline saudade

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2024, 07:50:59 AM »
I "joined" that site a while ago but don't really participate.  Aside from the marketplace (I'm not in the market) and the CGN bashing, there's not much else there. 

Speaking of CGN, performance is dazzling at this moment.  I've been on for nearly 10 minutes and no errors.

Offline kyle1886

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2024, 11:38:38 AM »
I "joined" that site a while ago but don't really participate.  Aside from the marketplace (I'm not in the market) and the CGN bashing, there's not much else there. 

Speaking of CGN, performance is dazzling at this moment.  I've been on for nearly 10 minutes and no errors.

When you limit a site to a narrow field as "that" site, especially where the politics of firearm ownership is as important as the arms themselves, the chances of it staying vibrant are slim.

There is another site I used to visit regularly that "no politics" was in force.  The site at that time focused mainly on hand guns and ammo.  At that time the focus was mainly the Browning/FN and such.  You can only talk about handguns so much and I wasn't into reloading.  That site may have changed but I have not been back in years.

I'm afraid that may happen to Caguns. 

Kyle
Not doing anything IS doing something!

Offline Bar-Ang

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2024, 05:33:43 PM »
i suspected it's not as simple as others were saying "do this, do that" otherwise it would have been done long time ago.

Offline zatoh

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2024, 01:30:47 AM »
I was able to get in today with only one instance of a 504 error. It's slow but it's working. Yay! :D

Offline Bar-Ang

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2024, 09:44:03 AM »
strange thing but not so strange i guess .... every time i try to access my "message center" it gives me the "FORBIDDEN" and then followed by 504. it must have been 7 to 8 times yesterday (am & pm) trying to response to a member. and then 3 times this morning.
but when replying to a post, it was find. head-scratcher but then again .... not really

Offline TrappedinCalifornia

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2024, 03:10:41 PM »
You have to 'wonder' at the apparent disconnect at the other site.  Are they totally wrong?  Probably not.  But, they do tend to ignore the obvious. 

Go back and read what I quoted from Librarian in the OP.  The problems started, not with Kestryll, but with the software over two years ago when the host forced a move where we've been warned, since before I actually joined, about problems which would happen once an 'upgrade' occurred.  But, they are intent upon excoriating Kestryll...

Quote from: bbpp00
It was running fine until I wanted to post in thread started by TrappedinCalifornia. So I'll post it here, since obviously he's reading caguns.net.

Quote from: TrappedinCalifornia;n54340133
said:

Put bluntly, Kestryll didn't 'destroy' the site out of neglect or lack of expertise

What else are you going to call what's happening since calguns.net was moved to new dedicated server?
On dedicated server, you're the boss (root). That means you can do/install what you want. As in, setup monitoring, enable extra logging and you'd know within a day what's wrong/broken.
Than, if you lack know-how, hire a pro to fix it (I don't think DrJonesUSA and his team of IT pros have the right kind of expertise, but god bless their hearts for trying). Lack of $$ to pay pro? Run a fundraisers, I'm sure many members would help.
And communicate about the progress regularly with members here. Simple as that.

So yes, it's both, neglect and lack of expertise.

First, I'm not 'reading' that site.  I'm keeping track of three threads and 'stumbled' across this post.  In other words, addressing me on that site is, basically, pointless unless you're trying to nail down which threads I'm keeping track of versus something I 'stumble' on.

Second...

Quote from: ikeo1
Quote from: ugimports
said:

I don't know if they think it's all good. I was reading a thread there the other day when I was able to get on..they discussed this site..referring to it as redditguns.... and some of them basically saying they'd never use this site because it's full of liberals...now to me..regardless of political leanings..if you're hear actively participating and furthering 2A causes I could care less your political views.. several of the folks there basically said they'd go down with the titanic and just deal with having no community at all after that.. a few felt that off topic was the main reason they went to the forum at all and since this site won't have off topic there was no reason to come here... most in that particular thread acknowledged the site was struggling, but they were ok with it because it wasn't redditguns....

Yeah. it's ok. I can't be mad at those guys. They've inadvertently helped me build this site while they keep talking about it. We like level heads here who can think beyond libs and trump. It's a way to cope with what's happening and I'm an easy bad guy since this site continues to grow.

People will weed themselves out, we want people who are reasonable with continuing to push 2A to the masses through education vs just calling them stupid liberals who shouldn't own guns. How would you ever get people to come across with that kind of mentality? No matter what happens, in my position, i can only thank Kes for the opportunity, and wish I could've given him a payout and an elegant exit.

The guys there don't really understand its just business. I don't care about your political leanings. This is an opportunity to bridge the communities Reddit, Calguns, Facebook, & Youtube in CA. Things are moving and people are meeting up. I see more about Long Range shooting, hunting, and things I never would've thought would show up here. I'll do my best to provide the community a fast, secure, and reliable platform to build connections old and new. Hopefully more opportunities for small businesses to for services and such.

He's still got 'big plans' and WE'RE the ones who feel he is a 'competitor' and have the 'incorrect' mentality.  Uh... Yeah.  No.  He's not a 'bad guy' for building the new site.  He was 'inappropriate' in terms of what he was doing on .net and he's still 'incorrect' in terms of what he (and, particularly, his 'minions') are doing by way of 'spinning' what has happened.  (This is one of the things I've said about Librarian being over there and active; i.e., he seems to have been trying to 'temper' some of that.)

As I've now stated several times, if our faith in Kestryll is misplaced, we'll know soon enough.  What they don't seem to grasp and many of them don't seem to care about is preserving the information and 'history' the site (.net) contains.  I don't know how one builds a community without also generating, maintaining, and paying attention to such history.  Without it, you have no real future.  Kinda one of those 'live for the moment' places akin to the 'community' one sees in a movie like Logan's Run where, once it's considered 'old,' it's abandoned for a (re)newel, without truly understanding what that means.  In that sense, what they're building is a whole new community, with a whole new 'culture,' and a whole new future. 

Good luck to 'em.  I can relate to the 'excitement.'  But, I've also been there, done that over the years.  Ultimately, I've always returned 'home' as the 'new' just didn't have whatever 'IT' is which weds one to a community.  Does that make me an old fogey or just someone with a sense of place?  Probably a little of both. 

In the end, it's just a different kind of 'excitement.'  Instead of an 'excitement' for the sparkling, dazzling, and unknown, it's an 'excitement' for the rebuilding of the 'old' and the carrying on in the face of setback.  As we've said, if it was simply about money and/or added hardware, with a few 'obvious' tweaks, there have been enough offers that it likely would have been done by now.  But, just like when preserving old documents, there's often more than a 'quick fix' involved.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2024, 03:18:15 PM by TrappedinCalifornia »

Offline Bar-Ang

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2024, 05:43:52 PM »
You have to 'wonder' at the apparent disconnect at the other site.  Are they totally wrong?  Probably not.  But, they do tend to ignore the obvious. 

Go back and read what I quoted from Librarian in the OP.  The problems started, not with Kestryll, but with the software over two years ago when the host forced a move where we've been warned, since before I actually joined, about problems which would happen once an 'upgrade' occurred.  But, they are intent upon excoriating Kestryll...

Quote from: bbpp00
It was running fine until I wanted to post in thread started by TrappedinCalifornia. So I'll post it here, since obviously he's reading caguns.net.

Quote from: TrappedinCalifornia;n54340133
said:

Put bluntly, Kestryll didn't 'destroy' the site out of neglect or lack of expertise

What else are you going to call what's happening since calguns.net was moved to new dedicated server?
On dedicated server, you're the boss (root). That means you can do/install what you want. As in, setup monitoring, enable extra logging and you'd know within a day what's wrong/broken.
Than, if you lack know-how, hire a pro to fix it (I don't think DrJonesUSA and his team of IT pros have the right kind of expertise, but god bless their hearts for trying). Lack of $$ to pay pro? Run a fundraisers, I'm sure many members would help.
And communicate about the progress regularly with members here. Simple as that.

So yes, it's both, neglect and lack of expertise.

First, I'm not 'reading' that site.  I'm keeping track of three threads and 'stumbled' across this post.  In other words, addressing me on that site is, basically, pointless unless you're trying to nail down which threads I'm keeping track of versus something I 'stumble' on.

Second...

Quote from: ikeo1
Quote from: ugimports
said:

I don't know if they think it's all good. I was reading a thread there the other day when I was able to get on..they discussed this site..referring to it as redditguns.... and some of them basically saying they'd never use this site because it's full of liberals...now to me..regardless of political leanings..if you're hear actively participating and furthering 2A causes I could care less your political views.. several of the folks there basically said they'd go down with the titanic and just deal with having no community at all after that.. a few felt that off topic was the main reason they went to the forum at all and since this site won't have off topic there was no reason to come here... most in that particular thread acknowledged the site was struggling, but they were ok with it because it wasn't redditguns....

Yeah. it's ok. I can't be mad at those guys. They've inadvertently helped me build this site while they keep talking about it. We like level heads here who can think beyond libs and trump. It's a way to cope with what's happening and I'm an easy bad guy since this site continues to grow.

People will weed themselves out, we want people who are reasonable with continuing to push 2A to the masses through education vs just calling them stupid liberals who shouldn't own guns. How would you ever get people to come across with that kind of mentality? No matter what happens, in my position, i can only thank Kes for the opportunity, and wish I could've given him a payout and an elegant exit.

The guys there don't really understand its just business. I don't care about your political leanings. This is an opportunity to bridge the communities Reddit, Calguns, Facebook, & Youtube in CA. Things are moving and people are meeting up. I see more about Long Range shooting, hunting, and things I never would've thought would show up here. I'll do my best to provide the community a fast, secure, and reliable platform to build connections old and new. Hopefully more opportunities for small businesses to for services and such.

He's still got 'big plans' and WE'RE the ones who feel he is a 'competitor' and have the 'incorrect' mentality.  Uh... Yeah.  No.  He's not a 'bad guy' for building the new site.  He was 'inappropriate' in terms of what he was doing on .net and he's still 'incorrect' in terms of what he (and, particularly, his 'minions') are doing by way of 'spinning' what has happened.  (This is one of the things I've said about Librarian being over there and active; i.e., he seems to have been trying to 'temper' some of that.)

As I've now stated several times, if our faith in Kestryll is misplaced, we'll know soon enough.  What they don't seem to grasp and many of them don't seem to care about is preserving the information and 'history' the site (.net) contains.  I don't know how one builds a community without also generating, maintaining, and paying attention to such history.  Without it, you have no real future.  Kinda one of those 'live for the moment' places akin to the 'community' one sees in a movie like Logan's Run where, once it's considered 'old,' it's abandoned for a (re)newel, without truly understanding what that means.  In that sense, what they're building is a whole new community, with a whole new 'culture,' and a whole new future. 

Good luck to 'em.  I can relate to the 'excitement.'  But, I've also been there, done that over the years.  Ultimately, I've always returned 'home' as the 'new' just didn't have whatever 'IT' is which weds one to a community.  Does that make me an old fogey or just someone with a sense of place?  Probably a little of both. 

In the end, it's just a different kind of 'excitement.'  Instead of an 'excitement' for the sparkling, dazzling, and unknown, it's an 'excitement' for the rebuilding of the 'old' and the carrying on in the face of setback.  As we've said, if it was simply about money and/or added hardware, with a few 'obvious' tweaks, there have been enough offers that it likely would have been done by now.  But, just like when preserving old documents, there's often more than a 'quick fix' involved.

yeah! i get the gist. .net is like my favorite worn t-shirt and pants that i can let go. just too comfortable and somewhat faithful friend for lack of a better words. i hope it get sorted out soon before the 2028 election.  ;D

Offline CenterX

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2024, 06:58:14 PM »
There are thousands of words in this thread. 
Has anyone stated that maybe a super hacker anti gun nerd is trashing every
Attempt Kestrel performs to try and make .net work?   
Lot of haters in the world.
If it were subscription based in say 3 tiers of pay/access and with a killer firewall.   
Life could be Cali-Fine again.

Offline TrappedinCalifornia

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2024, 07:59:45 PM »
There are thousands of words in this thread. 
Has anyone stated that maybe a super hacker anti gun nerd is trashing every
Attempt Kestrel performs to try and make .net work?   
Lot of haters in the world.
If it were subscription based in say 3 tiers of pay/access and with a killer firewall.   
Life could be Cali-Fine again.

You're just part of an on-going push to make the site pay-to-play.

What all doing so are steadfastly ignore is that Kestryll has said - "No."  Why?  Because he intends to stick to a promise he made, years ago, to not turn the site into that.

Could he change his mind?  Sure.  But, I don't think continuing to push for him to do it plays well; with Kestryll or the larger membership.  Then again, who knows?  Well... I know I wouldn't pay-to-play.  It's just that, like you, there are those who claim they would.  Of course, claiming they would and actually doing it... well...  Let's just say that it's an assumption that turning it into a pay-to-play site would mitigate the problem in that we don't even know if it is an 'attack' vs. old software not playing well with new software or something along those lines.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 08:01:36 PM by TrappedinCalifornia »

Offline yzernie

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Re: What Happened With .net - Librarian Said...
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2024, 10:18:06 AM »
For me, the lack of timely updates about the site and what is going on with trying to get it running well is concerning to me.  We don't need to know every little detail about what is happening but I do feel that the membership, especially those of us who have paid to help support it, should be informed.